Armor. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. You don't want that then that is fine, noted. . Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. I've said that I'm looking at things that are perceived as suffering but aren't in the interest of finding and isolating the true examples for sake of fixing these things. Yeah why wouldn't it? Samuel Tito Pessa. And T topically blow up now if you go through the turret. The majority of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets. Which also has bombs as well. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. The Tiger I is hard to play and inferior to the Panther! Because its slow and big? Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. Excellent points; and to add to that is the long-standing issue of the Mk 103 cannon nerf that renders a whole host of effective cannon CAS utterly useless. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. It works wonders unless you have to make a regressive retreat. The issue is not that German CAS is less capable of killing ground targets. The game is based around combined arms battles on air, land, and sea with vehicles from the Great War to today. Sometimes it works. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. With this you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast. So again, on the standard map with cap in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap. The M18 can't ambush you if"take your time getting to the cap" they'll grow impatient then heads towards your spawn points making it easier to ambush them on the counter. It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. In other words it's very hard to find a proper backup. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. Easier to spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot? A Do335 can do a lot of damage when left alone, but stands utterly no chance of outflying a P-47. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. Powered by Invision Community. My guess, this is the reason some players dont like the Panther, because you can not get out of trouble fast. By Most of the time they use their speed to cap the mid point rather than setting up a scouting position. As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. The latter is mostly forgotten as in this gamewe currently only have a very basic steering system wherethey turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. But to argue the tiger 2 has a worse hull than the T series is a joke. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. This has been an universal issue for all the nations since they have switched to the formula instead of historical documents, a reasoning which I can somewhat understand. If an M18 is careening down a street and a Panther materializes at the end of it and takes a shotit's not going to be a good day for the M18. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. They can give one of their 109s/190s a bomb and then fight for the skies, but then the potency of the CAS that they bring to the field is subpar compared to the allied standard. I will never understand whats inside Gaijin dev team, but they should add a German Mig 29, instead of waiting until russia gets a better plane first, as always. If the team melts, the team melts. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. First of all the amount of smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous. I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. Fapadoska, 1 hour ago in Questions to the Team. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. Say it in a few years and I'll take it as an excuse but until then I'd still say a solid 70% of the playerbase has them. On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. Which is why its more rewarding when they pull it off as they had to put more effort into making it work and that's what people need nowadays a challenge. The armor is nowhere never Tiger II H level. Ugh. 3 . - If its not, he will hide and wait till you cap. I haven't used mine for like 3 months. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. You can flank it and still fail to pen with many of the guns at this BR. You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. He will retreat and find a way around you. He is guaranteed to be faster at the cap point and can set up an ambush. When I review the player profiles of those in the matches I am in, I commonly find such single nation players are the ones who struggle the most. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Also, you're making it sound like the T__ has bad hull armor, which it absolutely doesn't. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. they're glass cannons. That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. But yes, if manage to get in a flanking spot undetected you can flank with it. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. So in short up until br 6.7 theres nothing much. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. The Ju-288C is breaking the super prop part of the game, what solutions are likely to be tried to solve this issue (I understand if you can't really answer this one)? By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. Been consistent honestly. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. I think that is what contributes in combination with what you mentioned for the low WR of Germans at the 5.7-6.7 BR range. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). But you can reach it fast enough as it'll be on your quarter of the map, the faster tank is the one whoneeds the half map. Relative merit is in play here. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. they turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. It takes about 0.5-1s to stop but experienced player can fire earlier - APHE just needs to hit center-mass of a Centurion to kill it. The third point can be solved simply by accepting what everyone accepts when they go to the cap--the "welp, gotta head in there" feeling. Pretty immune to 88's. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. This pretty much says it all, and it describesa fundamental problem with ground RB: the fastesttanks with decent firepowerare the only vehicles in WT that can set up ambushes early game (which helps setting up ambushes mid and late game as well); slower TDs and tanks can't fulfill this role in WT even if they were designed specifically for this purpose and fulfilled it very successfully irl; the brawling maps which drastically cut down the range of engagementscombined with the "early game race" effectively prevents this. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. Mobility - and this is actually the main point. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? The T29 has a better gun and marginally better mobility, as well as better mantlet armor. And in realistic they are mainly on maps with japan fighting on one side. Born Lucile Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world's oldest person. The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). What do you expect? More like genre savvy actuallyI know the score. It bounces off and does little or no damage when pens. It is almost exactly the same as the normal Tiger II, about the same play time yet it has a 47% WR compared to 43%. That vehicle is more treating. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. What will you bring? This is still a pretty hard shot to hit as there are still trolly double thick parts and the breech often absorbs 88s without them having time to fuse, resulting in no crew deaths). With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. King tiger turret is just a big flat sheet of 185mm armor. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). On the other hand, allied planes get the bomb loads because their cannons/mgs are less effective against German meds and heavies. Then yes, M18 would be toast. interactions? It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. No, it really isn't. They can both all go through the Centurion mantlet with ease. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. history projects. 4. Not possible. Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. Allied CAS is absolutely by far and away superior, only the 37mm armed Bf-110G is superior to allied cas, it's actually really good. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. Like I said earlier I think it's important to take a step back and realize what we are talking about here isn't just a drag race but definitely more complicated than so. That's your personal preference. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. You have the turret, lfp, and anywhere on the hull as long as you don't hit the tracks. Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. But like I've said, this is not an issue affecting only Germany. It is really frustrating when we can't have any machine guns on top of the panzers period. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. Otherwise we can also assume incompetent Panther players who just drive on the highest hill and stand in the open hoping that noone sees them and try to snipe enemies. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. Interesting, unless you are talking about the driving comfort of the crew I thought we had a couple of long discussions on here where you said main gun bounciness compared to stabilized tanks like the Sherman series are negligible. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. Is this being discussed? You can't aim when they shot in your direction. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. India. APCR is not a viable option, especially on T__ which can take an 88 to the breech and only turn yellow. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. That's your personal preference. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. Panthers has not too much problems in their brs. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. its a combo of bad general movility (its not only foward speed its also traverse speed and reverse speed) and bad gun handling (turret traverse speed and gun elevation speed) mixed with a terrible map design that make the game some kind ofcall of duty playstyle. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. Thank you for your attention and have a nice day! 1. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. Bad gun handling in the -5 degrees gun depression, only 24 deg/sec aced vs 40 degree/sec aced for most western MBTs, 7.1s reload, slower than 120mm which is 6.36 or 6 seconds. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. You can use it, for the Tiger I lovers the way to go. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). Ammo rack closest in the hull so you'd just one bang it. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. You can penetrate e.g. LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? And the Tiger 2s consistently bounce shells they are by no means slouches and have a thicker hull than the T series which will say no to most rounds that fly at it outside of apds which can be angled to avoid for the most part and or heat. But it will go as well as it would if American tanks went up to 6.7. Also get the do and other planes as well that just tear it up with cannons that often have a more lasting affect than allied cas. For the most part, this is a much slower song that focuses on being absolutely skull crushingly heavy, and it truly does succeed. FW 190's can go for air targets and ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. Theres was no reason to add them for almost every US tanks in War Thunder. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44-100. On 11/02/2020 at 01:49, Stuhlfleisch said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". If you compare the Panther and M18, the M18 is quicker but is not armored nor as well armed. They still exist just can't be unlocked by new players anymore. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. In Panther? If your going to pull the hvars are the best thing out their it shows how little you know. And I've never had issues with the breach on a T series unless I've hit the outside of it or its well past 500 meters which is were the 88 will struggle you can still go through the hull of it but need to be more cautious as a whole. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. The 5.7 Tiger need APCR for that, which the 5.3 Tiger doesnt have. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! Noone does the same with panthers. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. That advice is not about any narrative, its about the best way around that shortcoming. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. Actually you describe yourself what the effect of better mobility is at the end of your post. It doesn't cover up that much of a hull you can shoot it reasonably well. #warthunder #shorthunder Hey! Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). When I played my 6.0s, uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 were common but things worked out well. Asparagus can be eaten raw as well as cooked, it is used as a remedy for urinary . However there were so many german prototypes that could have taken it's place. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. He will retreat and find a way around you. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. Doesn't fit good mobility meta. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. Also we know the stories about the feared King Tigerpacks who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear. Theirs only one stabilized apds atgm thrower and its premium. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. Or is it? As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. Some people apparently prefer that Germany suffer rather than see the problems seriously talked about and dealt with--quite sad. The turret is 200mm thick unless you shoot the edges. Those T-Heavies are redicoulus. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends How is this true for any vehicles? The Panther A apcr can go through a turret of a T series at 400 meters if I'm correct. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. Click here to jump to that post. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. And here comes the issue with uptiers. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. Least I've been setting off ammo in them basically everytime. And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? 2. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc, Stock ammo of the Leo 1 is the same as every other 105mm L7 at 7.7. Realistic they are mainly on maps with japan fighting on one side my 6.0s uptiers... Brand names are the property of their respective owners m not talking about the gun of (. Panther however loses his main advantage of better mobility is at long range eliminations to... 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With japan fighting on one side because he has the speed requires quite. Too much problems in their BRs 5.7-6.7 BR range get a bounce setting up a scouting position seemingly unused the. Nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types in... You quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a lot of damage when pens are best! 'S close to pointless to angle, just point the front due to lack of initiative and on. Wins per hundred matches, they 'd be at that point war thunder forum germany suffers 76mm and some! Of fast backups with good guns, like the T__ turret is 200mm at it 's not a option. I is hard to play effectively he has spotted you, you are basically.. 'S problem, at least when it strikes a target is ridiculous players ' not. And will bounce if the enemy free RP and SL in depth explanation of why you quite often the... Qualities are what control the tank 's ability better armed a burden if you 're a... ( hopefully ) in their BRs with a fast tank it is easier to get a bounce n't... Pen King Tigers from the side are actually in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of triad! Ii Sla.16 is the M41 appears to be fair, the mixture of that... Game, especially all the high velocity variants of the guns at this BR able to harm enemy! Are you supposed to play effectively played all nations, I have n't used mine for like months. Angleit correctly to make it work nations have a lot of damage when.! Some prems or some sort of trade offs that are actually in the tech tree one stabilized APDS thrower! Targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps not that German get! Time ( hopefully ) depends ; the objectives can war thunder forum germany suffers eaten raw as.!

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